Hondata dyno day (3 EP's on the dyno)

[myeverlovinsir]

JSIR, SmoothOperator and myself met up today and gave hondata the test on the dyno.

I went first. Here is my dyno chart. The top curves represent what I had before hondata. Before hondata my corrected tq was 133.9 and hp was 154.2 (correction factor = 1.01) You can subtract 3hp, this is where it hit the rev limiter. Still better.

After hondata both runs were using a correction factor of .99 so they are actually lower. Corrected hondata runs are:

1st = 127.7 tq and 146.8 hp
2nd = 128.3 tq and 148.4 hp

My Hondata Dyno Vid

[myeverlovinsir]

Rob was next. We outfitted his car thinking he would show the most gains because he is stock. Major Disappointment!


Here is his dyno sheet. You can see the non-hondata run underneath where it hits the rev limiter @ 6800rpms.

SmoothOperators Hondata vid

[BlasTech]

Is this implying a drop in overall hp/tq after hondata?

[myeverlovinsir]

And finally Joey's Hondata run with a couple of baselines thrown in. Another flop.:(

Notice the waves after the stock redline, alot of detonation. Not good at all.:(

All of us were running at least 92 octane.

JSIR's Hondata vid

[myeverlovinsir]

Overall there seems to be a lack of gains in general on the dyno. Hondata needs to respond here, because we at least expected some difference with Rob's stock engine. Mods or not it just looks like a higher rev limit and nothing more on the dyno. All of our curves seemed to follow the previous setup runs and I would have expected hondata to advance timing or change something in the fuel maps to show a slight change in the curves. I spent alot of money and time doing this to prove a point. It seems that hondata needs to make further modifications to their flash before anyone should run out and buy this.


On a brighter side, both Joey and Rob went for a spin in my car with the hondata. They both reported better tq and throttle response, but they never tested what I had previously. I did mention in my first impressions that the upper rpms seemed smoother, but that may just be my imagination. A theory was tossed around about open loop and closed loop tuning and how this may affect my road test impressions, but on the dyno (@ WOT) it's not showing any benifits, instead losses for me and no changes for 2 other EP's.


Hondata please respond. I was also waiting to see you report your findings from your Hondata dyno day results on diff. modded EP's. But I guess I know why you did not.

[HokieSi]

So for 600 bucks you get an extended redline that causes detonation and minimal gains?? What was the dyno procedure? Is there some external factor that we are not aware of?

[myeverlovinsir]

All of the cars were warmed and brought up to temp before running baselines. Joey monitored the intake, rad, and other temps to confirm consistancy. He has the data and should respond later. To me they were run very consistantly. The hondata ECU swap took only 10 min. for each and the hoods were left open and a fan running constantly. The outside temp was near zero. Each of us ran twice with the hondata except for Joey, who was turned off the idea after the first run and detonation above the stock revlimit. I wish I could say in retrospect that there was some extraneous factor, but we were all left scratching our heads.

[Cone Killer]

Sounds like I'll be getting a big screen TV now

[IceD out N CALI]

doesnt sound too good, but i'm sure there is some kind of explanation for it. guess we'll jus have to wait to see for hondadata's response

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
doesnt sound too good, but i'm sure there is some kind of explanation for it. guess we'll jus have to wait to see for hondadata's response

I am trying to be patient about this and will talk with Doug personally. For the amount of money I spent, they should have a damn GOOD explanation. I am dreading sending this thing back to get it reflashed to stock, more money, time, headaches, etc. I wonder if I can just go to the dealer and get it flashed back and hondata can refund me directly. I am glad there is a 30 day money back guarantee, but that is only part of my costs.

[myeverlovinsir]

Thanks again Joey and Rob for showing up and providing your test vehicles. It was eye opening, even though I was squinting most of the time after my first run.

Rob here is a pic of you after getting your ass handed to ya. lol and thanks for the challenge, just a shame the road was wet, we both hopped on the launch. Then it would have truely been lights out.

Glen

[JSIR]

aw did I miss a little street race ?, damn, so what did it look like ?

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by JSIR
aw did I miss a little street race ?, damn, so what did it look like ?

Rob left F&F on a diff. route but I caught up to him and did the ricer flyby on his way to 401. We lined up at the next light. I rolled my window down and said "how did you like the ricer flyby?" I did not know he was going to punch it but we both creaped at the green, then he layed it down, I was shortly after him, and jumped ahead after spining for a bit, then it was just me staying in front in case he had something I didn't know about. No big kill just a freindly sprint. He has some pics of me during and after. He should post them up when he gets done work. That was fun. :D

[JSIR]

well it simply looks like the flash on Glen's (myeverlovinsir) ecu isn't working. While we aren't professional testers, the procedure was pretty flawless. Do a baseline run, swap the ecu and run it again. Oil and water temps remained constant, air temp was constant, intake manifold temps were constant. I have to say I was more impressed with Glen's Hondata manifold gasket than the ecu, his intake manifold was really cool to the touch. nice.

I am really surprised that the power curves were so similar from run to run between the Hondata ecu and the stock ecu, with exception of the increased rev. limit. I can't figure how that can be. Any small change in fuel and/or ignition timing would show up as a change on the dyno, I've seen it before hundreds of times. You would expect some sort of change, for better or worse ,but at least some change. But there really wasn't any change. I am also baffled how we got some detonation on Robs car and my car, yet the power curves were very similar between ecu's.

I will say that Glen's car felt very aggressive when driving at part throttle normal city driving conditions. It definitely felt different, more responsive, as if it had more timing advance. At WOT the car felt as a similarly modded SiR. I seriously think that the Hondata tuning is working better at part throttle conditions, rather than WOT. I always mix up open loop and closed loop, but perhaps the tuning is working at one loop operation but not the other. The increased rev limit is really appreciated on the street though. It seems that our cars can make good use of 7500 rpms, after that the power starts to drop off, but 7500 is plenty good.

It would be nice to hear about other results from Hondata's dyno day as they were to have some modded Civics there that day.

I really think there is some merit to the part throttle and WOT throttle differences (closed loop vs open loop). I know nothing about these ecu's but it may be worth investigating. Hope we hear more on this topic, particularly from Hondata. I would love to see any bugs worked out, particularly for Glen's sake.

Joey

[gpt]

I just wanted to say thanks to myeverlovinsir, jsir and smoothoperator for all the effort you have gone to in testing the flash.

I was just about to buy the flash but your testing has proven to me that it currently has no benefits. It may do in the future if Hondata does significant work on it, but for now there is no way I will get the flash.